Earthlings Twin Talk Researching Projects (Part 1)

In part one of this Twitter Spaces, Earthlings and HashPack along with other panelists speak about the process of due diligence in projects and some of the red flags to keep an eye on.

Transcription

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍All of you, welcome already to the show. Please take a moment to share the space. I think there's a button on the right-down corner where you can do that, and you can easily get back to the space again because we want this many people as possible, of course, in the space. It's a bit early, so most, ah, there we see some more familiar faces. I see I've come joining in as well, so we'll have, I was just saying, press the Share button because we want this much people to come and listen, and even in the evening because, well, my evening, that is because the US at some, are a bit, well, way later, of course, than here, so most retweets and people that listen in will come out usually after the space. But, um, let's start already.

Earthlings Land – Marcel De Grijs – Founder
‍So, what time is it in the US?

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Then it depends where you are, from left to right.

HashPack Wallet – Marc Ugas – Director of Operations
‍Yeah, yeah, you know, but it's early in the morning where I'm at, but like in the, like we changed times already, so like you guys didn't, so instead of having nine-hour differences, eight now, but like okay, East Coast, it's three hours ahead, so it's two in the afternoon.

Apph
‍At 2 p.m. is prime time, like, us is ready, yeah, ready.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Okay, well, I'll do a proper intro. So good to have some familiar faces again here with some friendly as well, and many more HBO's, but we have, of course, our guests that we all know. I don't know Cigtoshi if, I don't recognize the project.

HashPack Wallet – Marc Ugas – Director of Operations
‍Yes it's from Mad V Apes.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, yeah, great. Just wanted to ask Matt Vapes so what we're going to talk about today. Well, we're going to talk about the question that you ask yourself when looking at the new project. How to deep dive a project and what to look at, and we have so many speakers today. I think we're gonna, we're gonna have to be careful not to pass the hour again, so let's, let's.

Earthlings Land – Marcel De Grijs – Founder
‍So Patrick, yeah, this is going to be a space where we where we tell people to find better projects.

‍Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍So much can someone mute Marcel because I don't know are they better projects. Now, we're not going to talk about usually the people that joy, of course, they know who we are earthlings, we're building a gaming metaverse, but we are also doing these bi-weekly spaces, actually every week, but we take turns because we see Hedera death and HBAR Joe as well in the audience and they'll have, a Twitter space next week again, and we're going to get back to that as well, of course, but Marcel and I together with HashPack, we're doing this space also every other week, we did have Meet London talk about what people are buying right now and why. Well, I think actually that this show is a great follow-up on that. Let's see if we can get some value here again too. We are talking about what to look at. We're doing a deep dive into a project, as I mentioned already. And one of the things to look out for, it will just give you an extra piece of info that you need to make a better decision. So let's first see who are with us. And, well, he's a bit incognito with his Avatar. Yeah, but today we have a very, very well-known guest again. Luckily, he at least showed up with another after starting, of course, with our cross-chain bodies from Mad Vapes, who are luckily also building a serious project, you better are. Well, let's say that everyone can decide at the end of the show for themselves. Great to have them come over and share experience again from other chains as well. Marc who else is joining us? You've got any idea?

HashPack Wallet – Marc Ugas – Director of Operations
‍Yeah, so obviously, I mean, we have a HeadStarter here. I don't know if it's Master Ogway or Tudor behind the Head Starter account. Head Starter has a launch pad in the Hedera Hashgraph ecosystem, as well as they also provide the Sentinel. And they help projects go to market in the Hedera network. So yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's Tudor or Master Ogway behind the logo, but welcome in. Then we also have Coffee, I presume, from Leemon Swap, which is an upcoming DeFi Dex and an aggregator in the Hedera Network. So it's going to be very interesting to hear your insight on this topic because there are a lot of differences between NFT projects and DeFi. And, you know, in terms of DeFi, it's very important to have a solid tokenomcs in place and so on. So it's going to be very interesting. We also have Apph here representing, and yeah, I think I'm really looking forward to seeing your insight. The other day, I was actually working through the spaces from a couple of weeks ago. And the insight that you had was super, super helpful in terms of how to prevent scams and so on. So I think that it's going to be a very interesting follow-up space from the conversation that we had the last time. And then, obviously, I mean, you know, we have Marcel here with us. So, yeah, I mean, I think that obviously anyone is always welcome to come up and speak. We'd love to keep the panel open. So if you would like to share some of your insights in terms of how to do a deep dive into a project and what things that you normally look for, feel free to request to be a speaker, and we'll be happy to bring you up, so yeah, I mean, did I cover everything there Patrick?

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, I think so. I'm actually quite sure that if we've got anyone, then just raise your hand and introduce yourself as well. And, indeed, there's a like, like Marc said, if you want to join in the conversation, just let us know and we'll, get you on stage. But it's great that we have some excellent speakers already, and I know, actually quite sure that that has had their tutor behind Head Starter, and they do a lot of deep dives into projects, so I wonder what he's going to tell us. Let's just start the topic with some questions, and everyone feel free to just give your take on it and just raise your hands, and we'll, Marc and I will try  to switch everyone. I think I'm gonna give Leemon, if he raises his hands, the first pick. Now, because last time I did not give you enough time, Coffee, I'm so sorry for that, so we're gonna make that up with you this time. So, let's start the topic. So, what do you look at first when looking at a project? What are things that trigger you? So, who wants to give it a first go? If no one raises their hand, I'm just, Marcel, first, okay? Yeah, Coffee, you didn't raise your hand, Marcel.

Earthlings Land – Marcel De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, I see, App now, but I'm first. Yeah there's a lot to look out for, but one of the things I don't always understand, if you see a new project, they're developing this, and sometimes they are serious, of course, but then they show trailers. I've seen trailers that look amazing, and then a few months later, the first gameplay or something is coming out, and it doesn't look at all like the trailers. And, well, it's actually not a sign that the project is a scam or it's not real, but it's just something I wanted to mention that I don't like. And, yeah, that's for me. If they trick you into buying something or invest in the project by showing something really great or promising things that are bigger than they can deliver, things like that, but it's always when you have to stick with the project and find out that it's not what you thought it would be. That's for me. I don't like that.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍How do you go about that, finding out early on? Because that's a good question.

Earthlings Land – Marcel De Grijs – Founder
‍Yes, that's while I was saying this, I was thinking, yeah, that's this. So it wasn't really a good answer for me. So yeah, you pick it up then.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, I think the answer is what you could do because I've felt for that trap as well. I didn't think that you would go that way because this applies especially to, of course, gaming metaverse and, but not to all projects, of course. But what you could do and what I should have done before two years ago or longer, actually, is just go to this course and ask them, straight up, is this going to be the style that your game or your metaverse or project is going to be, or are you not sure yet? And they should give you a very straightforward answer. And then, then you know. And so, that's what I would do. But I think app was next in line, then we'll go to great as well. So, after you do your thing.

Apph
‍Oh thank you, Patrick. Basically, what I would say when I go into a project, I like, that's hanzu like a battle was one before it's even fought. So before I even go into a project, I know it's going to be in the right industry and the right macro, and I said, okay, well, how long does it take to build a game? You know, we're going into a recession. What's going to be like on the other end of this? Is this something that I even want to invest in if everything works perfectly? And then if that criteria is met, then I would say, okay, is this better than their peers? So then I'll go say, what have they produced? And am I early enough to have that lowest financial risk of being basically at the seed round or even before pre-sale? And then from there, I will kind of on the basically play dumb or be, you know, on the DL, you know, targeting the founders and see, you know, what their thoughts are. Are they being coy? Are they being producers? Etc. And then, and, essentially, it's making a judgment. And so from a lot of people, they tend to be very emotional and less logical when making financial decisions. So it's very important if you don't have those traits like personality traits that you end up basically following people that you can trust. But for me, you know, I basically make my own luck. So I will go in and probe those projects that I think have great potential. And I don't mean like what they're saying. I'm saying, well, is being on the best blockchain that's completely scalable? What can this product do in the two or three or four years that it will take to build this project? And I say, okay, well, it can actually exceed something like axi affinity, but it's actually trading like it could possibly die in a couple weeks. So I can make an asymmetric bet that could make me somewhere on the order of 20 to 50x, and I'm actually not kidding. It's possible that that happens, but at worst case, even when it comes to market, it'll likely be somewhere between like a three or five x. So it becomes an easy investment. And then from there, I can help guide the project into basically from my expertise or what gamers actually want and go from there. So that's what I look at, at least from, you know, from the earthling's perspective, and that's kind of where my brain's at.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Thanks for your opinion. I love having you on the show because you always have another few things than a lot of other people, and we like as many different views as possible. Of course, I like what you say, that by the way, saying two, three, four years, because some people think that we can build it in two, three, four months. But we see projects that do build things like this and then after a few months, after raising capital, they're already showing massive lands and sceneries. But that's actually going a bit back to what Marcel was saying. It looked sometimes like they're raking in a lot of money at a fast pace with a very cool, expensive trailer, and then they've got the budget in and then they're just trying to throw it out as soon as possible. And then, you know, you, this reminded me of another subject that we might do on another show. Why, what's the rush, you know, because big projects aren't built in a day. And before we go to Grid, I do see my co-host, the hand, the hands up. So, um, Marc, will you please, then after you do your little say, please give Grids the stage as well.

HashPack Wallet – Marc Ugas – Director of Operations
‍Yeah, no, I just, I just wanted to make a quick comment on what Apph said, and when you were talking about, in terms of, you know, the thinking that you had there, in terms of, one of the things that I think is very important is also understanding the sustainability of the project. I mean, thankfully in this space, everything is very transparent, so, you know, I mean, you could, it's just, you know, you can Google how much making some sort of game might cost, right? And if, you know, when you talk to the founders, it's like, oh yeah, how, you know, we're going to build this and that, whatever, you start thinking, you know, making, you know, back of the envelope math and being like, okay, this is going to cost X, but, you know, and they say that they're not going to raise, you know, some external funding or something like that, and they're just going to fund it through like NFTs or token raises and stuff like that, then you can start doing some models in terms of like, okay, so they need to do all of this to be able to do so, you know, they have to do X, Y, and Z to do you know, this massive project. It's, and then the way that I start doing is like, you know, just working backwards, okay, so like, what would have to be true, you know, so this can happen, right? So, that's, I think that's just an additional layer, but I'm, I can go more into what I do in terms of figuring out whether a project, you know, is something that is interesting to me, but, Grid had their hand up before I did, so yeah, go ahead Grid.

‍GRID
‍Thank you, thank you. Good evening and good morning to where are you guys are from. And I am great, as you can see. And like, if I have to talk about what I look for in a project, like Apph here, like he told a little bit of nice points about like, you should be a you should have been, you shouldn't be a wolf, and you should be a sheep, and ask a bunch of questions to the bonus of the project to get to know a bit about it. And he talked about ROI, like written on investment. These are nice points, but like, you should see what value the project is also providing. So, for my first point, I would think the most important thing would be the value, like value what a project provides. Like if a project, like the initial stages, if it's not showing that much, but like their what they want to provide is so good that if everyone wants to get in, like that's a project one should try to get in, right? Like it's not like okay, I want to get in early and I want to cash out by selling my NFTs. It should be like the NFT should provide insane value that you want to hold it for the long term, like two, three years until they want to build it. So that's what I look into the project, and the second most important thing would be the economics of things, like how do they handle the findings and whatnot? Like that's the second most important point I would look at. So these two things are like major in my perspective. So that's it. Thank you.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍No, thank you for speaking out. And I'm not going to respond to that. Why? Because I have the idea that Coffee from Leemon wants to say something about that. Sorry, Marcel, you add your hands up first, but Lee Min is our guest, so Coffee go ahead. I wonder what you wanted to say on that comment.

Leemon Swap – Coffee – Head of Business Development
‍Hey guys, I don't really have anything specific to what Grid was saying. I just wanted to touch on, you know, comparing your investment horizon to the timing of the technology that you're investing in. A lot of times, you know, people, for an NFT project, they look to flip, so the technology that they're investing with doesn't necessarily need to be sustainable for X number of years. But when you go into the DeFi space, typically, it's a longer-term investment. So what you want to look for is how they're either aiming to grow the ecosystem that you're currently in or how they're trying to adapt to the newest technology what they're bringing out. So, you know, obviously, when you start your pre-sale rounds or your seed rounds, so to speak, they'll have a plan for the technology that they are developing, but if it's an old technology and you know that development's going to take just, you know, let's just say six months, for instance, by the time they launch, you know that there's still better technology out there. So is that something that you see yourself investing in for a couple of years when there could possibly be a better product released in the meantime, something to keep in mind is: do you know what you are investing in technology-wise, and how long is that going to be relevant in the space? Or, how long has it already been relevant in the space? The other thing is obviously, with crypto and web 3, a lot of it has to do with community. So, you want to make sure it's in a subject matter that you're interested in and something you want to contribute to helping build the community. And you want to stay within that community. So, if you don't see yourself wanting to be a part of building that community or participating in that community, it may not be an investment that's worth your time or your money, obviously.

‍Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Okay, Marshall, go ahead.

Earthlings Land – Marcel De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, well, actually, also a short follow-up about that because community engagement is something to look at. I think, are they active in helping the community? Are they active at all? And sometimes, you see that they don't connect to them, they don't help them. They just, well, we, I even know projects that just ghost you. So, I think that's something that's also important. And, I've also seen projects with huge followings, tens of thousands of followers on Twitter, but very, very low engagements. So, they have five or ten likes or hardly any retweets, no talks under the tweets, etc., etc. So, that's also a no-go for me. Also, are they transparent? I think Apph said it also, and I even think App had a private chat with him, and he said, "I think he said he looked me up, I don't know if I'm correct, definitely, but you, but you're not, I think." But no name, no address. Can you find them on Google? If you don't see that, I see so many projects that are even they've sold so many NFTs, and you cannot find who is behind it. And, I was looking last week about, or two weeks ago, I think, I was looking into rock pools, and there are so, so many rock pools, and the red flag was just like, they were anonymous. But I think there's a lot of FOMO also playing. Dave, if so many people are buying it, then yeah, you just don't want to miss out, and you also buy it. And there was this one project who got away with 2.7 million dollars in just left. It was Evil Ape. But they were anonymous. So, if someone is anonymous, I'm not in the projects. So, yeah, that's just what I wanted to say. Maybe App wants to say something.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍One second, I'm gonna, we're gonna go to App. I wanna hear your vision on that as well, but I'm gonna cheat a bit because I didn't hear Matthew yet, and I want to go to Head Starter after us well Apph, by the way, so don't go. But Matt, V Apes, I know that you are doing a lot with your community as well, and maybe you wanted to touch on that or something else, but I would love to hear about that, or whatever you wanted to say, of course.

Mad V Apes – Cigtoshi Nakamoto – Community Manager
‍Yeah, no, you hit it on the head. Uh, first of all, thanks for having me here. It's an interesting topic, it's an important topic. But I wanted to double down. I think it was Leemon who brought it up initially, is community. And what the team does with the community, you know, hand in hand, giving them the tools and resources, giving the community the tools and resources to build for themselves, which ultimately helps grow the brand of the project as a whole. You know, when you are working as a team for your community and they see that and start working as a community for the team, you create this ride or die, you know, relationship between team and community, where it's really like no one person is above the next. We're kind of all in this together, we're all working towards the same goals. Uh, and that's, that's what's powerful. That's when you start breaking into different industries and your brand starts getting recognized, as when people are using that and using those logos, those images, to create for themselves and just spread that brand awareness to other industries and markets and new people. So I think that is a very important thing to look for in a project, is how does the team, you know, interact and help the community, and then vice versa, how does the community go out there and ride for the team in the project, because when you have it working in conjunction, that's when special things can happen.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, thanks for your comment. I saw you flirting with King Solomon, by the way, so you're going to leave VeChain? I'm gonna come to it there. I guess no comments, no comment, no comments. We're stealing you away. Okay, let's go to Apph, and then we go to Head Starter. If Tudor is still there, and then Grit. I did see your hands, but that I want to hear it at first.

Apph
‍Oh, thanks Patrick. I would just say like, you know, when I come, like, I know Dez told me, did I look you guys up? Absolutely. Before I'm putting in, you know, tens of thousands into a project, I went to your guys' Dutch business system, you can search it up and use Google Translate, and then even, you know, you're saying you guys moved to, France, etc., that's all on the internet, unfortunately. So, you know, but like, you know, that's just me. After the fact, I buy first, because basically, as soon as you see something that's a you know, exceptional investment, you buy first, then do DD, and then if it doesn't work out, then you can always kind of, like, sell later when the hype goes up. You can kind of sell out with that liquidity. But the reason why, you know, I've stuck with that project is because the timing of the bear market is almost perfect, um, to kind of, uh, diversify assets that I originally had that I originally made, and into something that is more sustainable, it's more business-like in the long term, and so it always comes back to me from a business perspective, this is what, you know, what the market is looking like and what's the best investment, and I know that answer before I even talk to anybody, and it's just more of a confirmation once I start talking to people on the project. And eventually, it comes down to an adjustment call, and it's just basically like, "Are you consistently able to judge people, not for what they say but what they do?" and not, you know, and for what the market is saying, and what the benefit versus the risk is, um, and so that's kind of how, I that's kind of how I deep dive into projects.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Thanks, thanks for that. Great. I did see your hands, but I'm going to go first to, to have Tudor because I want to know his opinion as well because he, okay, so I must admit, our community gave us a way worse questionnaire, than Tudor even did. So maybe maybe we need to, to, to give some people to Tudor the Head Start. No, but, but Head Starter also, of course, did a deep dive on us as well, and this is what they, of course, do a lot. So Tudor, maybe you want to share your thoughts on what you look at in a project or maybe you want to go to the next question. What's a red flag on any projects for you? It's, it's your choice. Let's, uh, hear something from you.

Head Starter – Tudor - Founder
‍Hey, Patrick, hey, everybody, thanks for having me. These spaces are amazing, and I really enjoy these topics. They're very important to be had in the Hedera ecosystem, especially nowadays. Well, it's still the middle of the bear market. I don't know, arguably, right, we're still in the in a bear market. We're still, the sentiment is still pretty cautious, so don't quote me on the timing there when it comes to bull or bear. But, yeah, I think I think still the community that we have right now in Hedera is pretty much ready for the US to make a step forward towards, let's say a wider adoption of the Hedera network and seeing a lot more applications being built and released on the mainnet. I think that, you know, the other panelists, the other speakers made some very valuable points. I'm gonna give you my perspective from Head Starter because not only do we look at projects that are public, but we speak to a lot of projects that are in the stealth mode, and we stick with projects that have been launched and our Blue Chip. We speak with projects such as Earthlings, and as Patrick said, we give them a hard time sometimes. But I think it's all in the best interest because there's the thought it would be interacting with these projects, so we've, I've seen, so I'll give you my perspective. Maybe it's not something that NFT project-specific,  and it addresses a wider spectrum of projects whether that's game for DeFi, but we I've seen many pitch decks, so when it comes to looking at projects, we most of the time, one of the first things that we look at is the problem statement, right? So, what is the shortcomings that that particular project is addressing? Now, because this thing can be variable, like it can be an important topic, then you also have to look at the addressable market and their go-to-market strategy. If all this pans out, I think one other important thing that comes hand in hand is the USP or the unique value proposition that this project is providing. So, is this project doing things differently? Are they more cost-effective when it comes to, for example, let's say a metaverse project, right? A USB could be that they are building on Hedera, alright? Although the addressable market probably smaller than the one that you have on Ethereum, right? So that could be considered a USB. Or, if you are doing a DeFi protocol, how is it setting apart from the others, from your competitors? After that, we're looking at the backers, right? Who is already committed to the project? Who is, if there's any VC backing for the particular project? Now, probably lower than everybody expected, we're looking at the team. Because we noticed that teams generally can are pretty much hit and miss so I would personally much rather prefer to interact with a with a team that is, that where the founders have, I don't know, a plethora of soft skills, from commitment to reputation to transparency. So, the founder's profiles are very, very important, but I would much rather, so to say, back a passionate developer from Ukraine rather than somebody who has an awesome pedigree, because there's some certain things there might vary in terms of bandwidth, commitment, etc. Now thereafter, some of the next points that probably I'm not going to dive deeper into them would be, is the token required or not, what are the tokenomics, then what is the budget that they're looking at, roadmap audit, and of course, If there are any red flags, and I guess, that's one of the next topics that you guys want to touch on.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Yeah, we do. We're gonna go to the red flag soon, but I've got two hands now. Marc can you wait for Grid first? And if it goes, I've skipped Chris too many times. Great, go ahead, and then we'll go tomorrow.

Grid
‍Yeah, yeah, Marc has been like putting his hand up every time I speak, so like, I want to talk about, she was speaking about like the community part of things. Like, initially, if you look up to a project, it won't have a great community because it takes time to create a community. So, if you think that like, I will see the community part of things and I'll jump into a project, it would be a mistake because it takes time to blossom, right? So, like, initially, we should look at other things too, like the address that I was talking about, like the unique selling points and such, like other points. He mentioned a bit of like nice points, so that's what I was thinking about. Like, and I want to say that I have to go because it's getting late over here, and I want to like tell that I will be having spaces this Saturday. Please check it out at 11 PM EST, and that's it. Thank you for having me, and it was a great talk.

Earthlings Land – Patrick De Grijs – Founder
‍Thanks for coming over. I'll check out the spaces there that you mentioned. I hope it's not in the middle of the night. Thanks.