Cross Chain Spaces hosted by Binx from Pixel Land on the importance of royalties in Web3 (Part 2)

In this Twitter Spaces hosted by Binx from Pixel Land, members from various communities join to talk about the role of royalties in web3 and NFTs in the light of popular exchanges rejecting them.

Transcription

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Yeah, but you can argue that the flippers are making far more money off the NFTs and the creators themselves. Like sometimes, let's say for like, Hedera, we're minting stuff at like 500 H bar, and let's say it's like a thousand-piece collection, and then people, and then sometimes that floor, like, 10xes, and then the collectors are actually just buying at these low prices and flipping them high, and then you're ending up saying that you're losing money from the royalties. Actually, you've probably made more off of that one sale, you know what I mean? A lot of the times that's the case. And so, why, as these floor prices increase, as they get more value, then why shouldn't the creators and the artists get paid as well?

Flip – Spaces Host
‍I agree, and maybe it shouldn't be no pocket watching on the flippers' end or the holders in the free game project, and all right, that's what I kind of said in the beginning. I think projects charge way more than we charge for NFTs. Like if you needed x amount of money, charge more. Don't go with what everybody else is doing, charging for whatever the price is. Charge more.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Yeah, but then if we can sell these at like a lower price and put a small royalty fee on there where we're still getting that small residual income from those sales, why wouldn't we want our buyers to be able to flip that for a higher profit and just pay that small royalty fee instead of like charging up the ass straight off the bat.

Flip – Spaces Host
‍Because marketplaces that come out that don't charge in any royalties and then it's like none of that matters and everybody's fine.

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍I know there's like a lot of people with their hands up, but NFTier has a subscription model that there is minting in a couple of days that I think would be interesting to understand their thought process behind going with a subscription model NFT than anything else and if royalties played a part in that at all because I know that is one because it's way better. I wonder what Bread thinks about that.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Let's jump to Solo real quick. He's had his hand up, and then go back to Bread and Vet.

SoloGangGang – NFT Holder
‍Thanks for the mic, Binx. I do have a couple of things to say, and it might be just throwing a wrench in the middle of a conversation, so I'm not, sorry if I do that, but I'm gonna, I want to bring it back, okay? I want to bring it back to the basics, the terminology being used. I'm English as a second language, but I understand what the books teach me. So, we use the word royalties, but to me, it seems more like, in the nature of things that we're talking about today, it's more of a commission because, it goes back to the IP ownership. Royalties are paid, and I'll just Google the definition, royalties versus commission. The commission is paid in relation to the performance of a business deal or their sales performance, and royalties are, on the other hand, are payments made to owners of intellectual property in exchange for usage or licensing rights of that property over specific specified periods of time. So, I mean, let's say, okay, the terminology we're using is royalties, but it's more of a commission really, in my eyes, but let's say we've accepted that we're gonna call it royalties. Then the second point that I think is, is that residual income is justified on a case-to-case basis, and it's my personal opinion that projects building utility makes more sense to continually grow. They need those royalties to give their project development. But every artist has the freedom to say, "Hey, I want to establish that my art comes with the future five percent, quote-unquote, royalty," which is again like I said, is saying, "Hey, my art has a five percent commission every time it gets sold." and that's fine. But I do think on Hedera, we need more transparency as an investor because that's all I am. I'm not on the dev side, so as an investor, unless I go out of my way to ask, it's not generally disclosed. What royalties am I going to be paying until you buy the NFT, and then you realize, "Oh, it has a 10 or a five percent or a seven percent." Anyways, those are the few thoughts in my head. If, I would like to, know if somebody can say, "Hey, is it really commission?" Because people love to compare it to music, but that's not how it works in the music industry. When I go buy a CD, I don't pay royalties on it. That's me as a consumer buying the music. The art, when I'm a radio or show, yeah, I play royalties because I'm using that intellectual property to, make topics.

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍So, when you buy a CD, a part of that CD does go to royalties for the artist, just to clarify.

SoloGangGang – NFT Holder
‍That's true, but once I own that CD, I'm not paying continuous, I've paid that, and they've, regardless, is, is, I understand what you're saying, but in, in the nature that today, the commission is based upon as an investor. I buy a piece of art, I'm paying commission on the sales. I'm not getting the IP on most of these projects to be used as a, as a thing to earn income from, right?

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍Yeah, yeah, but I guess like buying a CD is a way to look at it. I would, I think streaming audio makes a lot more sense. Like streaming on Spotify, every time you listen to that song, the artist is getting paid, right? It's a small amount, but every time you sell, like it's Web 2 versus Web 3. The paradigm of Web 3 doesn't allow you to get royalties per play. You can't track that, it's not a thing, but it will allow you to get royalties per sale. And so even though it's a different mechanism than what you're describing, it's kind of the nature of the beast of Web 2 versus Web3. And I still, there's no incentive for any artist to put their art onto Web3 if they have to become a business, they have to be extremely tech-savvy if they have to have different residual models for their art other than what it was, you know, six months ago. Hey, I'm gonna make an NFT project, people resonate with it, buy it, they sell, I make money, I can continue to make this project. Without that, music doesn't work, and music is our main focus right now in Turtle Moon.

SoloGangGang – NFT Holder
‍No, I completely agree, and like I said, every artist has the right to say Okay, you know what, my art has this percentage, but should it be okay to, sorry, I know, I know other hands are up, I'm just gonna say, should the royalties be a standardized percentage on Solana and stuff? Or, I'm not sure exactly, but there was a lot of where a third and artists were charging too high of royalties or whatever. Do you think it should be a standardized percentage rather than an investor buying and then finding out, "Hey, I'm paying 40% royalties?" Or something as much as I think 100, that it should be disclosed ahead, it should be the standard from every project. But should it be standardized to keep it so the marketplaces don't go out, everybody just understands that, "Hey, it's a 5% or a 7% standard?"

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍No, no, yeah, no, I don't think so. Decentralization should allow the artist and Creator to, if I want a 50% royalty on my song, I should be able to. Do that, and there should be no standard that stops me. It doesn't mean people will buy it, and solo, though.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍The whole point you are making about, like, you're buying a CD, that's what really is incentivizing artists to come make NFTs in the first place with royalty so they do get paid for their work and aren't being taken advantage of by these like companies and production companies and whatever. Like they have ownership of their work and they're getting paid for it. So, to argue that point, I don't know who was first bread but and then,  NFTier.

VeSea – Bread - Developer
‍Yeah, I was actually going to take it back a half a step to the flip-in and patches conversation and again, and like, I think I maybe I'm just like, I don't like truly feel this this way, at least not this strongly, but I feel like I need to play this role to really wake people up, so I'm gonna say royalties when it comes to utility stuff like you guys are super fixated on this crap and you are so deep into it, you guys are not realizing how ridiculous you're trying to cram square peg into a round hole, all right? That entire conversation between flip and patches of like trying to make royalties feel natural as a flipper trait or whatever, and then patches wanted to make sure like, "Oh, but I'm doing this thing," and you guys are like, "I'm given the value for you to flip for," like that whole misalignment of incentives around how the mechanics of royalties work is the entire reason why we need to step back and go, it doesn't make sense for these things, right? You have patches going, "I'm giving you your value," and flip going, "Yeah, but I'm about to make you know 0.1 ether," so like that noise, like I'm down for royalties, but like maybe not right now because I'm anonymous and like everything being driven by volume, like there's better ways for us to have collectors, traders, and project owners working together with aligned incentives, right? We like, I'm not saying subscriptions is the end-all be-all, but re-relisten to that conversation that flip and /Patches just had, and like, how much was going back and forth, and how much like their like friction was. There, right? And now just wipe that from your head and think about a royalty model, right? Or not a royalty, sorry, subscription model, right? You set your mint price, and you say, "At mint, my token is going to have six months of royalties, all right?" You price your meant at that, and that's your runway for building out your, right? You do that, and then after six months, you say, "After six months, we're kicking in our Royal or our Subscriptions, okay? Anyone who wants any utility that we're going to provide after this point, you pay into this thing, and it says you get three months, six months, nine months, whatever, that's a thing. It's just a Boolean flag on the NFT, right? It says utilities active, utilities not active, that's it. And then you can have that be reflected in the marketplaces, and you can say, "You can flip, you can you can flip for point one or negative point one, I don't give a crap because volume doesn't matter to me. All I care is that you're sitting there, you're trading your thing because I'm getting my payment from the people who are paying into my subscriptions, and I incentivize people to pay into my subscriptions to do what, whatever, right? And then in the marketplace, one NFT is going to say it's got six months. One's gonna say it has no royalties, what's our no subscription whatsoever, no utilities. And like, the traders can go and trade and shut off and fight each other, dump on each other's heads, and do all this stuff, and it's totally disconnected from me as a Creator. I am getting my crap from the subscriptions, right? It's a steady flow. I can say, "I'm making x amount over y date," and it freaking works. And then you don't have to sit there and deal with like it being volume-based, and me, my incentives as a Creator, if it's royalty and in volume and volume-based, and like all that crap. Right? Like my incentives are misaligned with creators one because I'm trying to force our collectors because I'm forcing them to trade in places where they don't want to trade. I am potentially incentivized to just drive volume, and that comes from good news, bad news, whatever, right? I can make a bunch of announcements just to drive volume because volume is what gives me money, not like people actually wanting to pay into my crap right? So now I can go, "Oh, our project's going to crash. I'm rugging tomorrow." Everyone trades a ton, right? Volume goes up. I'm making a little bit of money, cool, and then I come out of a cake the next day, and I go, "Psych, we're gonna have all kinds of cool crap." I'm making a video game and a metaverse, and you know we're doing it on Mars. Price goes up again, volume's trading like crazy, I'm making more money. Like, you can argue that that's not an effective way to do that, but like, those are my incentives as a Creator, right? They're actually there, so like, just thinking about how misaligned royalties are with the new paradigm of NFTs versus what is an alternative model, not saying again subscriptions are the best, but it is an alternative model that has a lot of more synergies with the creators and the collectors. Like people need to step back and stop doing the square peg round hole, and they need to think about creative ways to apply this stuff. Like, I really want to be strong about this, that like we need to, this guy's not falling, we just need to get creative and stuff's there.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Vet do you want to jump in, and then we'll go to NFTier, and then, Death Ranger.

XRP Café – Vet - Founder
‍Yeah, actually, I really love the energy from Brand, so yeah, 100% and to just basically, you know, circle back on what he said is do you, I like the, you know, the idea about, you know, creative ways to, you know, think around that instead of,  beating, that kind of dead horse about royalties and back and forth. But do you, do you have seen because I don't, maybe it's just me, projects being kind of successful for their community doing that with the subscription model or like any alternative ways? And that's okay.

VeSea – Bread - Developer
‍No, I haven't seen anyone apply it. All those standards are out there. Like I've seen, I've already looked through the Ethereum thing, and I saw like there's a couple of them out there. Like some of them you can pay in your own token to get subscriptions, some of them you could pay in a native token, and you know, you can even have people pay to cancel their stuff. So, like, that's another revenue stream if people want to cut their losses. So, like, I've seen them out there. It's just no one's being bold enough to apply them or maybe we're just, you know, we're in a transition period.

Flip – Spaces Host
‍I like that, Brad. I like that a lot. Let's move on. Who do we have next?

NFTier – Kantorcodes - Founder
‍Hey, thanks, thank you for having me, thank you to everyone who has been just speaking this whole time and raising some really awesome points. This has been a super exciting, conversation, although sometimes mundane at times because it seems like we've been having this conversation for weeks now. And to circle back on a few things, sorry if I lose you as I'm talking, the first thing that I wanted to mention earlier on, someone had said that you need an admin key to modify the royalty percent on a token. It's a fee schedule key. So Hedera has unique keys for unique purposes. The admin key can delete a token and rename a token and change the admin key itself. I think that's about it. Patches might know more on that exact thing, but with the fee schedule key, if you set it, you have the ability to change the royalty percent on Hedera, and that flexibility is kind of amazing because like on other blockchains, a lot of the times, unless you've created an upgradable smart contract, it can be a once and done situation around royalties, and then you have the whole drama with calling a specific function or not calling a specific function, to garner your royalties. The other point that was raised was that we're actually doing a subscription model here at NFTier for our advanced analytics, and what we're doing is really experimental I think from that perspective, at least on Hedera, and that it hasn't been done yet, so my opinion on if we should have royalties or not on the NFT aren't really solid yet because one, I don't know how much revenue will actually make once we launch this thing. I do know that, just looking at a flat from the financial perspective, how much it's cost us and we've spent alone I think over 200 plus hours just getting this collection in order and preparing the contracts and stuff for this kind of unique subscription flow that we're putting together, not to even include the product itself that we've built that powers you know, the collection. And as a creator and builder, especially on a network that has fewer users, you just don't know what's going to happen when you put your product out. Obviously, you wish for the best, but it's a mo, it's really awesome that on Hedera, we do have that fee schedule key because we can, you know, realize that maybe this product is a smashing success, and then decide a later point that we want to turn the royalties off and go completely subscription-based, and that would be, you know, a cool thing to do to benefit those traders. That's an option, or it might not do so well, and we'll just have a few, you know, dedicated users who use it. In that case, you know, the royalties are extremely important to us, you know, to cover those losses and enable us to keep building. I don't think it's a um, a Boolean of if you should or shouldn't. I think there are so many factors, and the creators, at the end of the day, should be enabled to choose those factors. So, that was the second thing, and then the last thing that has just been gnawing at me so so much between all of these conversations is just, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but how short-sighted these conversations are. I, you know, I'm looking at a future where we're, and maybe this is, maybe it's too wishy-washy, but I'm looking at a future where we're tackling the Titans, we're replacing the Amazons and Netflixes, the Spotifys of the world, the Stock X's of the world, right? I mean, otherwise, why are we here, why are we building on web3 and investing our time and hours and working 90 plus hour weeks if we're, you know, just looking at recreating the same system that was before then, right? If we're thinking about a world where we've got a web 3 version of StockX, do you think that the average user is going to care if there's royalties or not? If you're a business and you're buying stock photos to use for your business, do you think that they're gonna care so much about the royalties? In most cases, they'll just completely disregard it. In my opinion, there'll be some, there's always going to be some of those power users who want a better option. They're going to go online and they're going to compare their options and find something cheaper, and they'll always be a business case for that. But for creators and builders we have to enable them the capability to run their business through hard times and great times as well, to have an additional war chest if they need it, and then leave it to themselves to make that decision if they want to turn those royalties off. But for the average user, it just makes me wonder if they'll even care at the end of the day, and maybe the focus instead should be how can we create these great user experiences and competitive options to the users that we're serving at the end of the day, rather than creating circumvention mechanisms with smart contracts and such.

Flip – Spaces Host
‍That was long-winded but he hit a lot of good points and I'm not mad at that. Thank you for your input. Let's move along to, I believe, Patches was next.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Let's go Death Manger, and then call H bar, you had your hand up for a while, and then from there we'll go to Mutasco, and we'll close out with Patches because we are coming up towards the end here and we want to leave some time for projects to show a little bit.

Death Ranger
‍Thank you, and I think I lost my train of thought a little bit, but I wanted to go back to what Flip had said about the CD. You know, how he's kind of said like if I have this when I purchase a CD that person initially got that royalty, but then what happens later on, right? If I go to sell that CD, this is what these NFTs enable, is not only replacing the middleman or in this place, the publishing company that would pay the royalty out to somebody who works essentially for them at that point, but it enables that even 40 years from now to say like this was Michael Jackson's last CD that ever exists, and you go to sell it, well in the case of an NFT, their family would actually get some sort of royalty, right, or the wallet associated with that, which hopefully would be their family would get a royalty to that. That's just like to me, it's amazing.

Paul HBAR – NFT Holder
‍I just wanted to add, thanks Binx, thanks Patches, this is still a great conversation, and I just wanted to, NFTier literally said basically what I was going to say, is we have to see the forest for the trees, right? It's we're having a small conversation and a small box and not seeing the reality of the growth of this market and where it will be in five years, seven years. And just like NFTier said, once consumers have the ease of onboarding and this is a daily thing, and Nike releases the NFT for a limited Jordan, nobody's gonna care if there's a royalty attached to it. It's just, we have to think outside the box. Bread is right, we do have to think outside the box but I do think we're just thinking in a small room and, that's really it. But NFT, NFT, NFT tier was on point, thank you.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍For sure. Um, you Tasco, if I'm saying that correctly, go ahead.

Mutasco – NFT Holder
‍Hey, thank you. This, uh, I think before I even said it, I think NFT was saying something that I was thinking because I'm looking at it from the perspective of, like, the Creator, because the royalty, and correct me if I'm wrong, it flows back directly to the Creator. The original Creator. And if that is the case, um, is there any thought around expanding the scope of the NFT ecosystem beyond just the original Creator and maybe incentivizing, fungibility at the level of the royalty percentage where it gets spread out, regardless of how insignificant it is, because the essence of this is to grow an ecosystem. If it's an individual, like just like the person that used Michael Jackson, for example, maybe LeBron James before he became LeBron James, and if he's gonna have to end up moving and signing different contracts, how does that even play into the entire, because it's not a Creator, it's the ecosystem that is built, and the value around the ecosystem is what the royalty base is extracted from. So, as long as the ecosystem is growing and creating its own economy, then, at the end of the day, the scale of that economy would determine the size of the royalty. So, if you're looking at it from that perspective, and if that's it, that the Original Creator no longer exists, how does that ecosystem continue to exist? So, are there elements within the royalty that could incentivize members to create some kind of steering committee that would sustain the longevity of the ecosystem? I'm just trying to understand, like, because most of the conversation so far I'm hearing, it's centered on kind of internal narrow state. If we go outside of that, and in a world where the real world begins to adapt NFTs in a different way, how do you even integrate in that kind of world, right? I don't know, I'm just trying to learn what the complexities are, and if you're just starting, and you're a team of one or two, what does that even mean at the protocol level to set it up in a way that as the ecosystem grows to meet the outside economy, you can actually progressively adjust it accordingly?

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍Yeah, it's been a while since I've had that hand up, so I'm not 100% sure why I did that, but I would just say, like, amazing, amazing spaces like this is a great cross-chain, tons of respectful disagreement, I love the bread energy. I was telling them yesterday, I think it's like, you know, sometimes bread, like, three sides of that bread is just beautiful fluffy crust, and one side stuck out of the bag and was a little stale and has been sharpened to an edge. You can really dig in and, you know, be articulate. I haven't changed really my opinion that royalties, I think, are paramount to web 3,  you know, the web3 market being accessible to non-technical users, to musicians, to artists. I think that because that's my point of view, is in who I'm trying to help engage in this space. I think that's I'm the hardest person to move off of that, but I think we got not just, you know, monolith here. We got a lot of different ideas, some cool suggestions on where we might be going, and then some good commentary on why or why not royalties are good. So again, not really bringing anything, I'm just rambling about how good this face was. I really appreciate you guys putting it on, and I think it brought a lot of value, so I'm glad it's being recorded.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Absolutely, and we have to thank all the speakers up here for that. Definitely an amazing conversation. It's been really great. This is exactly what we wanted. We wanted to get everyone in one room, talk to people from different chains, get their perspectives, and what's going on in each ecosystem. And I think it's been an amazing conversation, and I hope that we can deliver again next week because we do hope to put this on every week. We're going to wind down here. We do want to give some people an opportunity to talk a little bit about their projects while that we have so many people here in the room. If any of the speakers on stage want to take a minute or two to do a quick little chill, we're going to close out here in about 12 minutes, but I would love to give any of you the opportunity to talk a bit about your project and tell us about yourselves. I did see NFTier your hand went up so go ahead.

NFTier – Kantorcodes - Founder
‍Thanks a little first before I do a show just thank you all for the kind words by the way, uh sorry if I get a little bit worked up sometimes. This is Counter Coats behind the NFT account, so that's NF tier not NFT tear, I hear that sometimes there's no there's only one t. If you need help pronouncing it, you can kind of say to yourself non-fungible tear, but that's another way of doing it. My partner helped come up with the name, and she's really great with the branding marketing stuff, and we've been having debates about it for a really long time. At some point, our name was going to be tarity. I'm so thankful that we didn't do that because that was one of my terrible ideas. Anyway, so this is about the NFT or Advanced analytics. That's when we were talking about the subscription-based model. We briefly mentioned that, but that's also the product that we're most excited about right now. So NFT or Advanced analytics is the first, I think, NFT analytics platform on the Hedera Hashgraph. Essentially, it's quite similar to other tools that you, some of you might know, but since you're from these other chains like IC tools, for example, so we're taking all the data that you can get on the HTS, so you can aggregate sales listings, rarity holders, personal portfolio value over time, and to seamless and awesome dashboards. Eventually, you'll also be able to track those types of analytics through watchless alerts as well. That's kind of our next quarter priority, and that's what we're really excited about. So upcoming on March 1st, we have our first kind of subscription-based model, and that's going to be through an NFT collection called the Data Bots. It's really small, just 108 of them. We just want to try this thing out, see how it goes, and we've built a custom smart contract just for that mint essentially where, because of the intricate, ways that you can handle tokens on Hedera which is a little bit different than smart contracts on other networks, you can't just modify a token URI on a particular token like you can on an EVM chain. So usually to modify an NFT, you first have to burn it and replace it. So what we've done is you can mint your Data Bot, you can have it in your wallet, and you might decide, "Hey, I don't want the analytics right now. I'm just going to hold it for a rainy day," and I might decide I don't want to activate it later. So then we have this claim function essentially where you will burn your original serial with a new serial number that has a claimed image over it, which is another really cool thing about Hedera because, uh, using our wallet HashPack, you can have multiple, images, which I personally haven't seen with a lot of other wallets, which creates an awesome experience. So you have this, this claimed image and then you have your original image, but let's say that Binks wants to go to Zeus and she's already claimed her NFT. Now when she lists it on Zeus, it'll have this claimed image. So let's say Patches is looking on Zeus and he's like, "Okay, I want to buy a Data Bot," and then he'll see, "Oh, Binks has listed hers, but it's claimed already, so maybe I don't want that one," so in this way, we're kind of protecting people a little bit and also providing transparency in that way with that second image. Yeah, so that's what we've got going on, uh, that we're really excited about. And on top of the Data Bots, we also are creating an NFT data ecosystem with our in-house tier token, Tara Token, in the long term will kind of serve as an oracle, kind of similar to Link, where people will be able to use the Terra Token to pay for NFT data. Let's say they want to create their own dapps, let's say they want to use the rarity of an NFT to dictate what the staking percent is. They'll be able to create smart contracts or they'll be able to call APIs to get that kind of data and integrate it into their apps with tear being the payable method for that.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Patches, does that have a question?

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍No, I was gonna shill yeah.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Cantor where you did. Was there anything else you wanted to add real quick before we move on to Patches?

NFTier – Kantorcodes - Founder
‍No, that's about it. Thank you all for your time and hearing me out. We do have the mints on March 1st. We're still accepting submissions for the allow list, so if you want to look through our Twitter and put your name to it, uh, we'd love to see you come up to a minute.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Awesome, and please pin something up on the Jumbotron so people can get to that. Patches, go ahead.

Turtlemoon – Patches - Founder
‍Yeah, I definitely need to get on that allow list because I'm really bullish on what you're describing. And then I guess the one thing I would say to clarify as well, in that mechanic, when you burn and re-mint your Max Supply is still set to the max, so it's not like you can just Mint new ones even though you said the max Supply was 80. That's on the token ID, and you can burn which it gives you an allocation demand but only until that Max Supply, so uh, nuance there. But I just thought that might be some helpful clarity for people not familiar with Hedera. For me and my shilling, I just wanted to say, you know, HGraph Punks drop four is coming up. We're looking, we'll have the hard date announced yet, but we've kind of nailed down internally, getting real real close, and it's looking like um, end of March area, so we're getting, excited, and I'm gonna put out a Dev blog in the coming days that explains what we're going to be doing. And, uh, got uh, some liftoff stuff in the works, where we're working on uh, getting the new artists set up, getting another concert. If you were not at the first concert we had, the first token-gated metaverse concert where Web2 musicians streamed live, it was really cool. Um, we're trying to do another one, but this time on a sound stage in LA, and a little bit blown up, a little bit bigger. And we're working on that too with Vicente from Vasizi, and it's going really well, and excited for that and more details to come out. And then, there's another thing, uh, yeah, just if you're at East Denver, please reach out. I'm gonna be there working the Hedera booth representing Turtle Moon, HGraph.io, Moonshells, HGraph Punks. Uh, any questions about any of those things, we'd love to chat and see people in real person, not just as a skull PFP. Cheers, now that's everything.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Awesome, and I did see you put up a poll on the Jumbotron, so everyone go do that as well. Um, and then, Patches, if there's anything you want to pin up here as well, Marty, go right ahead.

Marty Mcfly – NFT Creator
‍Thank you, thanks. I want to touch on the just the original topic, Rook. I'll make it super fast. I think just the main thing is the power's in the wrong people's hands, and I think that's all it comes down to. Because different opinions, like you could do whatever you want, but then if you can't do whatever you want because someone else is making the decisions for you, then I think that's where it gets weird and wrong. Um, but it's going to get to the point where it is what it is, but as far as my show, I am Marty, I'm a 3D artist on Hedera. I have an auction coming up. Date is to be announced. I've done a couple commission pieces in the past, so if you guys didn't look into getting any 3D work done, my DMs are always open. Um, but yeah, some exciting stuff coming up.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍I'm a big fan of Marty's, for anyone listening. Super bullish on his work, I'm just saying. Thank you. Um, after dark got up here, anyone else that was on the stage that, um, Vet, did you wanna talk about?

XRP Café – Vet - Founder
‍Oh, sure, sure. Um, yeah, um, I mean, one of the co-founders of XRP Cafe, we went off, the largest NFT marketplaces on the XRPL, and yeah, feel free. If you have any questions or sort of things you want to approach us for, free to DM. We're happy to facilitate. We've been around for a couple of months because um, NFTs on the XRPL are around for a couple of months only. But yeah, looking forward to more of that, and um, a small shell for the um, charity event, cross-chain charity event on the 11th of March. I, many from H bar and V chain and I think five other chains, gonna be there hosting cross-chain event.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Awesome, thank you vet. And um, who do we have? Is it Ray Ray or Stealthy?

After Dark Social Club
‍Neither. Your 0 for 2 is the rule. Hey, what are you doing? Hey, it's part of my job. You have at least three, three more hours. If you come on as personal, that's why, that's why. I don't know if you saw him in the crowd. I was listening this entire time and I'm like, let me switch it up on him real quick. Welcome to Ruler, thank you very much. After dark for us, yes. No, I first of all, I love the conversation today. That was very insightful. I love the fact that we can have differing opinions and still come together and respect each other. That's really refreshing. I love the dialogue, love the difference in, approaches and mechanisms. So, I'm sure there was somewhere that we can do an in-between. But for the Social Club real quick, uh, if you guys have some time, we're doing a live space, of course, today at 8:30 p.m Eastern. We're gonna drop some offer for you guys that is the next piece of information we're dropping in regards to the project. And for those that don't know what after dark Social Club is, it's an H bar project launching at the end of March. A collection of 6666. We're currently still working on vibing with the community, building. So, make sure you go into the profile in the bio, click on the Discord, and come check it out. And also, the latest thing we have released is the website where we're doing a pre-mint where you can actually go on there without connecting your wallet or anything that ties you to the actual website itself. You can click on the shuffle and find your PFP that really resonates with you, and you can rock it. You can post it, do whatever you want with it, just to get a glimpse of what the art looks like, but keep in mind those are not the full traits. We're just giving you a little bit of a teaser so you can check out what the artist is capable of. But a lot more coming from him, and like I said, there's some big Alpha coming out in the spaces tonight, so if you have some time, come listen. Vibe. We got some music, you know people are always talented coming up and not dropping some bars, some instruments, so if you have some talents, bless us with them. But again, tonight 8:30 p.m Eastern time, see you guys there.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Thank you to Ruler and one last show from me. I don't see any more hands up. Join us tonight on NFT Late Night right after the After Dark spaces. We're going on unfiltered, as if we were before (no, we weren't). Come chat with us. We can continue this conversation, we can talk about anything your heart desired. We're just hanging out with friends, talking NFTs and whatever else we want to talk about. Topo Chicos, make sure to bring your beers and blunts, everybody. It's going to be a good time tonight, 10 p.m Eastern NFT Late Night. I've got it pinned on the Jumbotron. Any last words from my co-hosts? Phones Flip, go ahead. Uh, Pics?

Pixel Land – Bones - Founder
‍I'll say, yeah, thanks for everyone coming out and definitely good space. I like the topic. I think we hit some good points and got some different opinions, so I'm looking forward to seeing everyone next week.

Flip – Spaces Host
‍Yeah, excellent, excellent, excellent space. I had a good time hearing different perspectives, seeing different chains. Actually, a great turnout every time. You know, we're getting four or five plus different NFT chains in here, so this is awesome. If you like what you heard today, you know, give a follow. Probably turn the notifications on. I'm pretty sure we'll announce the next space in the topic, and thank you all for coming out.

Pixel Land – Binx - Founder
‍Yes, thank you all so much. Conversation wouldn't be what it was without you all here, so appreciate you all taking the time to join our spaces today, to come up and contribute to the conversation. It's been amazing. The ruler, I see your hand up, but I'm gonna be strict here and cut this off because we're doing great on time. So thank you all for joining in. If you want to hear what Driller had to say, join his spaces tonight. See you all next week.