Cross-chain discussion with CMO of Hedera, Founder of Casper, Lead at VeChain and many more! (Part 2)

In part 2 of this Cross-chain spaces, Genfinity hosts leaders of the Hedera, Casper, VeChain, XDC, and other prominent web3 projects. The discussions include conversations about enterprises entering the web3 ecosystems, current applications of prominent brands like the UFC, and Avery Dennison, and the current state of regulation in the crypto industry.

Transcription

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍And it's like overwhelming. I mean, the metaverse, loyalty apps, gaming apps, virtual concerts, Mana drops, loyalty cards. If you could tell us, you know, kind of briefly like how all these things interact, what you're looking forward to kind of moving forward. I know you guys have a token that's going to be launching as well, so obviously not financial advice, anybody listening to this. But we're talking about Dapp ecosystems previously, and I would love to hear kind of, you know, just quickly like your thoughts around the Dapp ecosystem that X-manna represents. And I know also Douglas from Blue Canary talking about, you know, kind of one of the first security offerings within this space. And just interested to hear your thoughts, that'd be great.

XMANNA – Steve Stein – Founder & CEO
‍Sure, it would be my pleasure. So, you know, for us, it's really all about value, about the users, and what drives us is revenue. You know, so how do you connect ad spend to add return when people have a predisposition to, you know, not want to be around? In fact, we're willing to pay money not to see it. And for us, we're able to drive that through engagement and gamification. There's a variety of different ways we do that, but, you know, first of all, you hear a lot of people talk about adoption and education, right? And we think that's completely backwards. I mean, how many people today swipe their visa and truly know what happens when they swipe it, right? People don't understand technology that they use. It just has to be seamless, it has to be something that people understand. You know, and, and doing so in such a way that incentivizes action. So it took a lot of trial and error to figure out what the best way to do that is, what the best way to bring this to market. And it turns out that using sports, retail, gaming, and entertainment provides something really unique. Well, everyone is out there trying to, like, you know, build a, or encourage users to come onto their chain, what we figured out is that you don't need to have that, you just need to encourage the users to interact with you along the value chain, especially along those key points. And when you do that and they become partners with you with this whole concept of this ownership economy and you put together a business model that incentivizes users to interact with you in a significant way, you find that you can drive people to engagement. And we can do that in any room, anytime, on this call right now, a variety of different ways that you can do that because everybody has a want, right? Everyone here is driven because they want something. You don't work to pay your bills, you work because you want something. I want that new car I want that new trip, I want whatever it may be, so you have something that drives you. And it happens to be that, well, you want that thing. That company you're paying money not to see, companies like that trying to reach out to you. And there's a variety of different challenges associated with that company and you interacting. How do you do it? And how do you create that kind of, you know, engagement and interaction? It turns out, gamification is the key. Right? Everybody wants something for free. And, well, it also turns out, giving away things for free is not exactly easy. There are rules, regulations around a whole bunch of things in order to be able to do it. But when you can find the right mix of gamification and engagement, and you can create a unique technology stack that people already understand, they're familiar with, where experiences are a lot more seamless, where users are not going to understand where a movie begins, ends, excuse me, and a game begins or, they're going to be able to jump through in metaverse environments because everyone's going to have a metaverse in the future. And the question is, how do you connect it all? What is the backbone of it? And we think it's really going to be users as they move between them. So, we've built a bunch of different technology stacks that we think are going to support that. Self-service is where companies can interact without having to understand how it works from the game developer side, from the partner side, from the investor side, from the user side. And, that way, we're able to connect a variety of different things. So, when you open up your application like your phone, you can click a link and simply jump into a metaverse. Your avatar can move around in a variety of different ways and have experiences, moving from company to company, experience to experience, where we're all truly connected, right? And, we're encouraging the users to do that and creating an environment that is conducive to encourage companies to collaborate with us. We have hundreds of companies already registered to be a part of our world, Excellentis, that we're building. It's a world that's going to be owned by everyone powered by X Mana. Where every company is kind of have their own, you know, control over their XYZ coordinates. A lot of cool things really coming, coming in this, and you'll find that we've been dropping a lot of hints with companies and partnerships that are coming around in the space. There are so many companies building in the future, and if you think what they're building and how they're going to create engagement, it's centered around gamification, these Web3 Technologies. So, I hope that kind of explains it.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, I mean, Sadaf has given me the down low briefly on some of the conversations that she's had with you guys previously, and it's like, hey, Steve from X-Men, I just got off the phone with that, you know, X, Y, and Z, and I'm just like, wow. So, yeah, we do have pinned to the top up there if you guys want to check out X-Manna. We certainly, we, again, we want everybody that's listening to the space even all the panelists should try to follow each other, because who knows where this space is going to develop down the line. And I'm trying to do my best here to host such a powerhouse panel. Go ahead, sit off,

Genfinity – Sadaf Jadran
‍Sorry Solomon. I was just going to say, Venkat, it's almost 4 AM for him in India, so if we could maybe just ask him any questions that we have. So sorry that you've had to stay up so late, Venkat.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, so Venkat, I have a couple here for you real quick, and then I wanted to get to Quincy because I'm trying to pivot in the right ways to the right people here based on the topics. I definitely want to get back to Jake from V chain surrounding sports in the UFC. I have some questions for Quincy coming up. Venkat, from Serenity Shield standpoint, here are a couple of different interesting initiatives coming out recently. On top of not only the Contrera partnership that you guys made a few weeks back, a month ago or so, you guys recently made a partnership with Fedora. If you could touch on that partnership as well as the decision to migrate from Solana to BNB, that would be fantastic.

Serenity Shield – Venket - CEO
‍Yeah, so of course, you know, as you know, that we have been signing up quite a bit of partnerships, specifically, you know, the amount of partnerships that we could sign this year is much more than what we could do in the last two years, which means that we are really evolving as a project. So Fedora specifically was because they are launching their new product under the Prism technology, and they wanted to use Serenity Shield with our applications as a launchpad for the Prism technology, which is going to be launched very soon, I believe. So they chose Serenity Shield as a launchpad for the Prism technology, and that's where the whole partnership has been sort of initiated. So we, I think we are now talking, the both dev's team on both sides are talking to each other, and very soon we will consummate this integration relationship, and you will see the outcome coming out very soon. So that's on the Fedora side, and what was the other question, Solomon? The other one was surrounding, hang on one second, the migration from Solana to BNB. Yeah, so of course we started with Solana because, as other panelists did say, we also wanted to be multichain and chain agnostic. So that's one, of course. We are also EVM compatible as well. So from that point of view of being a multichain and being able to be compatible, because at the end of the day, you know, since we specialize in data sovereignty and data is coming from most of these wallet users, we wanted as many wallets from as many networks to be able to use StrongBox as our product. See, that's the fundamental philosophy from where this whole thing is originating, and that's why we are speaking to so many wallets and there's so many networks because we want all those wallets, as many of them, to be able to use Serenity Shield's StrongBox product without any problem so that's one thing, and before I go because I might sign off very soon, Solomon, just give me a few minutes because I wanted to also talk about data sovereignty, right? Which is what you mentioned about Serenity Shield. So data sovereignty, we started with the simple concept of let's say seed phrases, a data, and from there we migrated to any sort of data in terms of audio, text, video file. But since I'm coming from a hardcore I.T background, and since I've been doing data sort of digitization for almost 10 years now, and that's where we were improved. Personally, I was intrigued, like has anybody done this in terms of putting a data management system or a library management system on chain in an encrypted manner, right? So that's where we are now, sort of forwarding into that sector as a further advancement where we are creating the architecture where we will also be positioning, or we will be able to position, a data management system because, as you know, the data management system is all towards data monetization, right? Today, most of the Enterprises and the companies and the corporates are probably storing their DMS either in a Google Cloud Server or in their own rate. But then we wanted to really explore the opportunity to be able to store the DMS or an LMS on chain, and then there we have the challenge of when you are doing some sort of a retrieval process, the data which is encrypted on chain has to be decrypted. So, you need to create temporary spaces to store the decrypted data, and then you need to still maintain the user experience and so on and so on. So, we are putting all these things together, considering all the operational aspects and the technical aspects of achieving this. So, I think hopefully by the first or second quarter of next year, I'm confident that we'll be able to come up with an architectural system where a DMS or an LMS can be stored on chain using a Strong box. So, with that, I wanted to sign off and thank you very much for this opportunity.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, thank you so much again. You know, before Serenity Shield signs off, if you're not familiar with Serenity Shield, with all the panelists up here, I certainly recommend giving follows back and forth and try to create some synergy because who knows, there are probably networking opportunities, and you know, especially as the space expands out, and Venket, I know it's super late, it's crazy. We're in these Twitter spaces, and we're all across the globe trying to talk, and you know, I really appreciate you coming in at such an early hour in the morning, and looking forward to getting you guys back onto another couple of spaces next month as well. So, thank you guys so much, and Serenity Shield, by the way, is a featured project within Genfinity. Um, we try to get them onto spaces as much as we possibly can within these cross-chain spaces as well. So, yeah, it's always a pleasure to hear from you guys. Uh, every space I've joined that you guys are hosting, it's not talking about token value or any of that stuff. It's really trying to solve problems and create solutions in this space so kudos to you guys, Venkat and, uh, keep killing it guys, and, looking forward to the next time we talk. So yeah, thank you very much, Solomon, and it was very great hearing to all the other panelists, and thank you for this opportunity. Thank you so much. I'm going to pivot over to Quincy here. Um, recently we've seen integration of the Proton blockchain being integrated into the XTC Network. I think that came out today with Proton Decks, which was an interesting announcement. As well as, uh, global trade facilitation Summit, Impal represented the XTC Network work. Most people don't still probably know this because ISO 20022 is such a polarizing topic in this space, but Impel actually was the first organization utilizing the XDC Network to bridge over Bitcoin via the One Chain Bridge, into XDC and do an actual cross-border, uh, payment with Bitcoin that was ISO 20022 compliant. I'm just giving some statistics here, but Quincy, what I want to ask you is about the Dow Fin proposal. Um, so moving, uh, towards further decentralization in the XDC ecosystem, if you could touch base on Dolphin, that would be fantastic.

XDC – Quincy – Foundation Developer
‍So yeah, Dolphin is essentially a proposal in which we can help further decentralize not only the network but the community. Uh, Dolphin essentially is addressing the problem of, well, Zinfin essentially creates a network, but how do we create a community that is essentially decentralized and focused on building on the network, decentralized, um, without essentially having Zinfin be the ones that lead the charge? So Dolphin is essentially a means in which a ton of XDC is gathered up and is essentially built or essentially put forth in such a manner in which the community can come together and decide what to do with the funds. And it's, and for the most part, it's just a means in which getting the community together, in which each individual entity, participant, party, whatever it may be, can all come together and make decisions on how to govern the network as a whole. Now, as of right now, for the most part, there are different governing tools for the nodes to be able to operate, but there aren't really any opening tools for the community to operate. So Dolphin's essentially addressing that, in which how do we allow for the community itself, different stakeholders in the community, to allow for a means in which these different funds can be allocated to different projects that want to build on the project or build on the network? So we have a different set of tools in which the nodes themselves can govern, representative tools in which they're sort of like a Judiciary Committee that they can govern, a different set of tools in which the, uh, I guess you just say sort of stakeholders or holders of XDC and what they can govern. And the main point is how do we essentially create a new governance model in which people who have some level of stake in the community, whether it's projects, whether it's node operators, whether it's XDC holders, how do we allow for them all to come together and have an equitable means in which to move forward? Because we don't want XDC to be the ones to essentially lead the charge for everything. We actually see this in terms of until we actually see this in terms of how Ripple ends up into a predicament in which they essentially the charge in terms of how the network is operated, and we want the community itself, the stakeholders of the XCC network itself, to allow a means of equitable allowing. Equitable means in which the different card participants to be able to allow a governance model, and it sounds really silly, but it's essentially creating a new government if you want to put it that way. It's essentially allowing a new government to allow for the funds that are essentially issued to the network by different participants, primarily Zinfin, but also different participants in which we can allow for people to build on the network. So we want to be able to allow for equitable means of our of different parties, however you want to define those parties. To allocate those funding to different participants to build on the network and move forward in terms of the further production of productivity on the network. If that's a general summary.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍No thank you so much. Quincy, so we are probably a half hour out from wrapping up. I've got only a couple more questions. I've got maybe one or two community questions, and then I want to give all the panelists that are still up here an opportunity to kind of close us out at the end. I definitely want to touch base again. I've got some more for V chain. I've got a couple more for Casper as well. First and foremost, most interested to hear from the enterprise aspects surrounding Casper Labs. We talked IPE with minting 25 million NFT patents on the Casper public protocol, which, you know, here's something that I always find interesting, is that a lot of this space is measured and has been measured recently under TVL, total value launched within ecosystems. To me, it's very interesting to start potentially measuring the space under total assets tokenized or what real-world assets are coming into the blockchain space. So, Bernal, if you could potentially touch base on what those patents represent for Casper, what types of patents are actually being minted as NFTs, and maybe your vision on the value metrics within the space and how they evolve moving forward.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, so, I'll answer the last question first because I think it's relevant to what I explained next. So, I agree with you 100% that TVL is an insufficient way to measure the actual value of a chain, and I think it should be, or total value locked shouldn't refer only to DeFi, but it should be a summation of all assets represented on that blockchain. And I think that would be a much more accurate representation because, you know, like we, you know, while we will be launching a bunch of D5 products going forward, when we think DeFi, we're thinking mortgages, we're thinking making an illiquid asset like intellectual property liquid. It is DeFi, right? It's decentralized. These are all financial assets, but I think the industry has stuck to a very narrow definition. I like what's going on in DeFi right now. I view it as 1.0 like, to me, it's the equivalent of MS-DOS to, you know, Mac OS, or you know, the DeFi aspect.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Like, a lot of people started with Ethereum and it was like, okay, there's value locked, but how much value has been rug-pulled? Like, how much value is liquid that's still moving around? Yeah, you know, what is actually occurring here? Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, I just wanted to mention that.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍No, no, I yeah, I agree with you. I think, you know, the real DeFi is when you start tokenizing illiquid assets like patents, mortgages, etc. Like, that's where we're focused. So, we really do hope that that metric becomes a real metric because I think the way it's tracked right now will always give the industry the problem with the industry is it's become like this Shadow industry and you know, not really working with Enterprise and government, and luckily on this panel, most people, you know, disagree with that, but there is this anarcho Vibe that's there in the industry, and I think, you know, these current DeFi measures are just a result of that. So, let's talk about IP, specifically. So, the aggregate value of all the patents that will come onto the Casper blockchain is somewhere between seven and ten billion dollars. So, you know, massive amount of IP coming onto The Casper blockchain. But again, it's not, it's not the DeFi TV out right. This is value of patents. The founders of IP, Eric Spangenberg and Leanne, are both IP lawyers, so, you know, they've been working with Fortune hundred and Fortune 500 companies on IP or intellectual property pretty much their entire career, spanning decades, and so, they have relationships with most of the Fortune 500. When it comes to their intellectual property, so, you know, it's companies like Coke Industries, Toshiba, Nike, etc. These are the patents that are going to be minted on the Casper blockchain, so it's Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 companies, and we really like this because it's a great platform for us to do other things with these companies. It's much easier to go to a company and say, hey, just so you know, you're already using our blockchain, all your patents are on it, so, you know, here's the other stuff that we can do. So, really, really excited about it, but yes, it's real patents from real Fortune hundreds and Fortune 500s. 25 million of them were somewhere between seven to ten billion dollars. I think the minting is going to start in a couple of weeks, and, you know, kudos to them, IPwe, they've won best Enterprise application, you know, they beat JP Morgan, LVMH, etc. I think it's a killer use case. I think it's going to revolutionize The intellectual property markets, so super, super stoked to see what ends up happening, and, you know, just personally, I really love the team at IPwe, and, you know, it's always exciting to be able to work with people who are that innovative.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍No, thank you so much Mrinal. So I've got maybe one or two questions left for Vechain and then I'm gonna get to community questions, which might take five to seven minutes, and then I want to let you guys close this out. So Jake from, uh, from the Vechain aspect, not gonna be able to answer it, um, Sonny Lou attended a meeting today with the head of Hong Kong's treasury to present V chain the new white paper and Technical Solutions. How'd that meeting go? I'll move on from that but I will ask, uh, we were talking, uh, previously about, you know, really kind of involving, you know, fans and communities, and even from the sports aspect, which X-mena brought up, which brings up the US, uh, UFC aspect within V chain. Um, you know, how has that relationship kind of been with the UFC? You know, I went down myself and Valor from Gen Finnerty went down to the Hive Summit. We weren't able to make the UFC event, but just seeing all of the relationship building and everything else that's going on, it's, it's, it's pretty crazy. I mean, to kind of watch what actually occurs within those events. How's that relationship been with UFC? Um, how do you consider that kind of moving forward as well?

VeChain – Jake - Communications Lead and Community Manager
‍Yeah, I mean, the UFC, they're fantastic to work with, obviously massive and fast-growing sport, kind of a lot of overlap with communities, quite a lot of Entrepreneurship there, a lot of companies and vendors that work with them as well that you know we can talk to freely. But in terms of the kind of Community Development aspect, I mean, you know that has been one of the biggest Boons for Vechain. I mean, V chain's obviously got the, you know, been working for a long time with an Enterprise, uh, with an Enterprise kind of solutions field, and it's always been a bit, you know, top down. V chains there, it's doing its stuff, and I think in the last year or so, in particular, there's been a real, you know, um, drive towards, because we've always had a really strong Community, uh, but you know it's now we want to kind of give back and provide opportunities to also Network and just grow the community even further. So as you kind of saw, uh, you know, the UFC post event after the Hive, it was just a phenomenal chance for everyone to get together. I mean, I met so many characters that I've worked on, so not worked, I've been part of the community, you know, alongside for years, and it's just amazing to see people's faces, and you know, it's so funny that you kind of introduce yourselves by these, uh, you know, Twitter avatars. You're like, "hey, um, random word 49" or whatever, you know, it's just, yeah, phenomenal opportunity, and, uh, we had a big event just recently in London, uh, in the UK, and again, we, you know, imagine bringing together a large portion of the, uh, kind of very active European community, and it's just, yeah, it's phenomenal to be able to give back but also Network and build a naturally Relationships and tangents bring up on the back of this. So, you know, if you change efast, we were touching on the interoperability at the moment. There's a real dry flake create the tools, create everything that's needed for people to also run and build adoption in their own way. Because, of course, V chains is focusing on the kind of Enterprise-level stuff, and you know tons going on there. But equally, the web free efos is about community and building together, and Blockchain is the summation of the value of all parts. You know it can't just be just Enterprise and have you know no one also taking part, you know on the other side. So, UFC has been phenomenal. You know, technical Integrations in the works there and the discussion currently, of course, provides amazing networking opportunities outside of the V chain Community. You know, having this ability to go to an event offer someone tickets, bring their networks and you know, I mean, all around, it's just been a phenomenal move for V10. I'm sure any of the Vechain Community listening will kind of agree with that statement, especially those that have partaken. I can see a few in the crowd to see Jordan down there, Mr. Food Chain Vu. So, you know, it's been a really phenomenal move for Vichy. Now to say in terms of Community Development.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Awesome. I'm gonna let you guys close this out. In a second, but I do have a question. So, Crypto Caesar asks, 'um, this is firm and all, when financing, I would ask a question when Binance and Coinbase Mrinal,  yeah, it's like a question that can't be answered, right?

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah. Look, I can’t comment, uh, on specific dates or times. I can tell you that, you know, both have been in touch with us. Um, you know, CZ was interviewed by Medha at our Davos venue this year.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍She did a great job, by the way. Yeah, you know, it was one of the better interviews that I've seen in this space in a while.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, yeah, you know, everyone asks them the same question, so you know, we decided let's just ask him random stuff like hey where do you get your hair cut, you know, what do you like to do in your free time because you know, people don't know him, right, and we just wanted and he's an incredibly smart and influential figure in the industry, so we just wanted to make sure that you know it was fun and people got to see a side of CZ that you know, everyone asked him what is your view on regulation, when do you think this industry is going to go crazy, like everyone asks him the same question. So, so yeah, look we're in touch, oh, I can't really comment on it.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, at some point what about so I mean outside of kind of the major like uh Central centralized exchanges you know for lack of a better phrasing, the other question that he asked which I actually do kind of like is you know, are there are there discussions with you know not necessarily super cold storage but like kind of hot wallets like Exodus and things like that you know, I know right now the open Beta of Casper wallet is live, but is there a plan to kind of expand out the different wallet?

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, no, no, definitely. I mean, we definitely want to be. I think, I think, you know, for a lot of these, some of the major listings need to be behind you for a lot of these wallets, and again, this is more to the association, right, that really looks at more of the community and exchange stuff, which you know, Labs, we don't really touch that much. But yes, I think, I think all of that will be done, but all of it will be done post, you know, major listings, which usually is like a condition precedent. Well, you know, like our focus is really, you know, our view, because we're super long-term oriented, right, like our viewers. Look, this stuff happens when it happens. What we're really, really focused on is the improvements of core Protocol and of course, you know, helping people like enterprises don't care. Right, like enterprises literally don't care where you're listed as long as they can, you know, use the underlying technology. They don't care. And so, you know, we're really focused on making sure our partners, IP we, and others, you know, can.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍It's almost like let the centralized exchanges come to you rather than paying crazy asset on listing fees to.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍We've never, we've not, we've never paid any fees.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, don't intend to. Go ahead, sorry.

Genfinity – Sadaf Jadran
‍I've got a question for self. So Rico, somebody's just asking how are you guys going to help, you know, your average retail user towards adoption in this space? And then I've got Noor on the, uh, I've brought up as a speaker who wants to ask a question as well. So Rico, if you want to just answer that one first, how are you guys helping adoption?

Self Crypto IO – Rico Maverick – Founder & CEO
‍For us, we have been talking about, you know, like, how to help people to jumping into crypto and feel comfortable using them, because it is complex. And we have to assume that it is really, really, really complex. And maybe they may think that using centralized exchanges to buy and sell crypto is a good way to adopt crypto, but in fact, that's bad because then with the self problems pop-ups. So I think in our opinion, the key is going to be like held them with our service, for example, or any other digital identity to first register an identity, a simple nickname to envelope all these blockchains that form the cryptocore system, for example. I would like to talk about this example. My father doesn't have a bank account. Okay, my daughter, my mother has been the one at home and making everything okay, all the payments, the transfers, and everything, but lately, okay, a few years ago, with all these services that use a phone, okay, you can send and receive funds. Here, he started to make transfers. Okay, so I think we need something like that on crypto. We need an easy interface and something that is human-readable okay to be easy to read and to understand in order to bring people on board. So I think to do everything and to make a transfer, I think it is key and we can usually help them in order to adopt.

Genfinity – Sadaf Jadran
‍Great, 100% sure, 100%, and I think that's something that Steve touched on before. The end-user just wants it to happen. They don't really want to know the technology behind it. They just want to be able to use it and for it to work awesome. Thank you Rico.

Nurbrks
‍Thank you very much. Sorry if I didn't hear you. Thank you for bringing me up and thank you Solomon also for allowing me to speak. Amazing handling of very big brands here. A very interesting conversation. I just wanted to take a chance and to apologize for ums and uhs. They were quite busy. I was working also with them. I'm working closely with the team on a couple of stuff. For anybody who was joining the spaces just for them, for sure check them out. My question basically for the whole panel, which I think is an interesting topic for everybody here and it's quite general. I moved from the centralized exchanges with the FTX thing happening and obviously last year everybody was panicking. We all want to trade on the axis and for example, UnitDen, it's a tradex aggregator which is I think bringing a lot of issues that we have in DeFi trading kind of like adapting even more to look like centralized exchanges and it's quite interesting in my opinion. What is happening now in EU and obviously in the US, they are trying to come after DeFi with, in my opinion, ridiculous regulations which, to my understanding, whatever I read the past couple of days, I'm not sure how they are going to actually facilitate them. So, I would like to ask the panel because there are obviously very big kind of smart people here and people with opinions, and I think a lot of people are excited about DeFi, about decentralization. What are your thoughts on these topics about regulating like the DEXes and DeFi world?

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Man, I mean, I guess I can give my opinion which is probably going to be incorrect and maybe we run the gamut here and get a couple of different opinions and then try to maybe ask one more question and wrap it up. But as far as DeFi and people wanting to trade with DeFi, I think it has to be simple for people. I think that this space is super complicated. We're 99% of the mass populous and less DeFi, which I think will really become easy to utilize where you don't have to deal with certain aspects. I just think that this space, the way that they're regular in the space, especially in the United States, is, I think, KYC is going to be across the board. I think you're going to have the, which is kind of ironic, right, saying DeFi but then saying KYC. But, I don't know, I mean, I just think that they're really going to make sure that they know everybody that's feeling in this space, or already starting to make moves towards that, which, you know, if you think about, you know, data sovereignty and decision making sovereignty and what really digital cash could represent as far as the privacy aspect, I mean, that's one thing. But look, if you're dealing and investing and you're dealing on platforms, I mean, you're not really dealing natively in, like, a representation of digital cash that needs to be totally private. So, they're going to monitor who's in this space, what they're doing in this space. I think it will eliminate a lot of crap in this space. But it's almost like a bastardization of the word DeFi, like in my opinion too, which is kind of crazy. I think they're going to regulate this space. I mean, that's what they're going to do. And I think KYC is going to be pretty much across the board. I mean, look at the. I mean, Stood off, you probably saw the thing that came out today. I forget the name of the bill, but essentially saying that, hey, if you're using a VPN to deal in crypto, you could face up to 20 years in prison. I mean, that's, I mean, Solomon, I just woke up, when did it come out? Probably four or five hours ago. I didn't have it. I was trying to prepare for this, and I didn't do a deep dive into it. But, all right, well, that was about 4 am for me, so I figured. Yeah, but no, but I mean, that's my opinion. I think they're going to try to make sure that they know who everybody is in this space. And that's just my opinion.

Genfinity – Sadaf Jadran
‍I think that's what everybody's kind of using anyway. That's a bit of a loophole at the moment that people are aware of. But if anyone else wants to answer, Noah's question, please feel free to unmute and maybe answer before we wrap things up.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, I can give it a shot. I think, look, not only do I think they will regulate it, I think the government should regulate it. The biggest problem that we have as an industry is a lack of regulatory clarity. Now, it's not whether it's too strict or not strict enough, I'm just, like, it's not clear. Like, look, you're the government, you tell us what's legal and what's illegal, we'll follow it. But if you're not telling us what's legal or illegal, it's very, very tough. Look, as with any financial asset, financial assets only get trust when they're well-regulated, you know, like you wouldn't buy stocks, right, if they didn't have a 10K behind it, if they didn't if there weren't certain reporting standards, etc. So, you know, like, I do think some level of regulation, uh, is coming, and I think it's actually healthy and good for the industry. Like, I think clarity is good, you know. And the current state of affairs right now, where you know, there's a lack of clarity other than a few, you know, Switzerland has very, very clear rules, and there are some geographies that have done a really, really good job. But you know, I think they will regulate it, and I will add, I think they should.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍I think this conversation could be like an entire space because if you look at the moment, bus the boom and bus cycles of crypto, I mean, I'm not, I mean, I'm not really a fan of that, regardless. Like if you look at crypto as a one trillion dollar asset class, which it's not, well it is, you know, physically right now, but it's going to usurp a lot of things and combine a lot of things. I don't want to say usurp, it's going to combine a lot of things, but based on the efficiencies that exist, but in order to get there, you need clear-cut and dry regulation. Otherwise, we're going to keep going through these four-year cycles where everybody gets wrecked or everybody gets rich, and it's not a way to build out sustainably, you know, as a new asset class, as a new technology, as kind of the shift from web 2 to web 2.5 to web3. I agree kind of totally with, uh, with Mrinal. I don't know if anybody else has any thoughts on that. If we, if nobody else does, you can answer. Alright, yeah, absolutely. I think it's definitely going to be regulated.

XMANNA – Steve Stein – Founder & CEO
‍I think it needs to be. You know, if you look at what's happening out there, you know, just some of the news that, uh, you know, scares the pants off of the public. Um, there needs to be some form, and I think it's going to be about a balance. Um, I mean, just look at Fiat, you know, Fiat in the form of the way it's regulated and the way they can just print money. So obviously, you know, it's about finding the right balance between it and, you know, um, you know, not extending too far governmental, you know, oversight and, uh, and overreaching, but at the same time protecting users. So I think it's going to happen. It's inevitable. I think just to what extent, and hopefully it'll be, you know, an equal kind of an equal balance, finding the equilibrium between them, I think will be the critical point.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Sir, do you guys think that there's going to be a shift between what was able to have been built up to this date as far as like, because you know, you see Enterprise-grade, well, you can make a lot of examples with them like Enterprise-grade chains or networks or ecosystems that have chosen to launch a certain way and then decentralize over time, um, rather than when regulations might come in that might, there might not be an opportunity for ecosystems to launch in regards to Enterprise and then try to decentralize over time. So the ones that are here might already hit that decentralization mark and the ones, once clear-cut regulation comes in, might not be able to build in the same way as far as what already exists. I don't know if that's even, is that way too convoluted? But yeah

Nurbrks
‍No, I can answer. Maybe this. Like, I totally agree with you. I think a lot of projects, who started at least in 2021, have an edge. And especially, what I have a problem with, to go back to what I was saying, my point, I guess it's these rules that are being made and regulation, both in the US and in the EU, by people who don't understand crypto. Like, if you read the latest, I guess, iteration of the EU law or what they are trying to apply, it is clearly not written by somebody who has an understanding about crypto. And I don't know, in my country, I don't know where everybody is from online, from Croatia, EU, so there has been a lot of AML offices popping up. Like, I've never seen them before. In my country, there wasn't like 10 years ago. I'm sure there was somebody tracking this, but an actual official office, there wasn't in existence. I don't know in every country. I know in the UK, you can basically, it's like a different jurisdiction. You have a tax office, you have a bank, and then if you have an AML office, they're acting like a different jurisdiction under any law, like a separate agency. I think talking to a couple of UK people, and for sure cut me out if there is anybody from the UK that actually knows more, like you can actually have your crypto money from an exchange into the bank, pay the tax, and you can't buy a property because no legal entity will stand behind you. So, I think they're trying to stop people having their own money, trying to get rich off of this, for a better word, they're trying to control the wealth. And I think the US specifically, very much, I think it's gotten out of their hands, the crypto side and kind of freelancing. They want to control it. I mean, I don't want to go into the conspiracy theories, but it's quite interesting how they want to control something that is not in their control and they didn't really do a good job. And it's quite obvious with fiat and regulating their own system that it's supposed to be regulated. I watched, for example, made of Netflix documentary. It's kind of ridiculous what happened, and we are trying to adhere by the same people who failed over decades to regulate our space.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Well, I think a lot of it comes down to the US trying to maintain control over the US dollar. But yeah, we could talk about this forever. We are at two hours ago. Yeah, I think I wanted to just go ahead. Rico? Yes?

Self Crypto IO – Rico Maverick – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, yes, sorry. Yes, a brief comment. And for me, it is funny, and you know, because they want to jump in and regulate and defy and regulate the decentralized changes, when the governments, that they don't even have a solid regulation regarding stables and how they back their missions with a stable with psychological and real money. So for me, it is funny to try to jump in into such a complex matter when they don't even have a regulation for the Basics. So, for me, it's a joke, honestly. Yeah, I think so. If I could just add one thing to that.

XMANNA – Steve Stein – Founder & CEO
‍I was just going to say one thing about the whole regulation side of it in regards to security tokens. We found out recently about the new structure that the SEC approved that allows companies to launch digital security token ERC 1404 contracts specifically around a variety of things, and I think that process is going to be really exciting. It almost looks like NASDAQ 2.0, what the future of digital securities are actually going to look like. And I think companies are going to look in that and find out that there are processes that are set up in place already when you look at institutions that already have their ATS licenses, right, alternative trading systems? You look at, you know, T0, you look at security as an INX, and you know, companies like INX are set up. You know, spent the last four years specifically setting up processes with the SEC and FINRA that allow companies to actually launch tokens. It no longer takes you know, years and years, you can do it in a matter of months. And those processes are led by a variety of different companies, and I think you'll see a lot of companies popping up in that space that we'll be doing that and following along those lines.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍I think it's interesting because like I started Genfinity at the end of 2021 and it took us a year to get a banking license. Um, and we don't natively deal in crypto, uh, so we obviously do deal with, you know, partners and who we work with and all these other aspects. But, you know, it's always interesting to watch. And this isn't from like a layer one standpoint because if you're launching a network, you're launching a network. But I always find it interesting to watch the way the project launch, especially with like uncertainty. You know, and the way that, you know, Austin's kind of retail participants, you know, deal with projects and like research projects when there's not even any clear-cut and dry regulatory clarity around what to necessarily research. It's almost like the, it's, it's, it's so crazy that, like, you know, we take all this talk and doing stuff, but there's not even any, especially in the U.S. there's there's not clarity. So, you know, all I think that it's interesting to be able to have such an immense group of panelists up here today. Vechain, Casper, we had Christian from Hedera, we've had XManna up here, we have Quincy up here. I have one question for Quincy and then I'm going to let you guys all talk about, you know, ending thoughts real quick. But it's interesting to have all these panelists up here and have the opportunity to talk to like real network and ecosystem builders, whether it be Casper or HBAR or Vechain that have actually engaged with governments that engage with these Legacy players to figure out what's coming down the pike, and I think it's a real learning experience. I'm hoping for everybody that listened, but for me as well, it's a pleasure to be able to try to host these spaces, and I hope I did an okay job doing it. But I learn a lot every time I get into these discussions, and for me, it's just a pleasure to hear from the people that are actually building these ecosystems. So, I'm gonna give it to the panel real quick to give closing thoughts. First and foremost, quick question for you Quincy because it's my last question, and then I want to hear your closing thoughts. Maybe we keep everybody's to like three, three minutes or so. Cryptobolic asked prior to the space, what wallet will be the most adaptive or able to be used from a user experience (UX) UI standpoint from the XDC ecosystem? Is there anything in development that you're watching? Are there integrations that we don't know about yet?

XDC – Quincy – Foundation Developer
‍Yeah, for the most part, in terms of web wallets, you're going to see XDC pay. But one thing that I'm seeing as a whole, in terms of how people are able to utilize different blockchain technologies, is - and this comes into an SDK that I'm working on - is how do we allow people to utilize any wallet to interact with a blockchain? And one thing that I'm working on in terms of an SDK, at least for iOS, is what's called Symbol Contract Interface Model Language. And for the most part, all it is is a generic schema that allows you to build dynamic interfaces on different devices to allow for developers to utilize one file, one JSON file, to integrate into multiple interfaces or multiple devices to allow for that one smart contract to be interoperable with multiple devices, whether it's iOS, Android, web, even VR, whatever it may be. But the biggest thing is, we see right now, in terms of XVC, is XDC pay. Now, I think, in terms of what's going to reign supreme, is going to be, like I said, I'm working on an iOS SDK and a few other SDKs, but regardless of that, the biggest thing is, it's going to be a means in which you can iterate, interact with smart contracts seamlessly with any wallet. It's the biggest thing. I think people seem to focus on, is what wallet is going to interact with this application, and in theory, it should be any wallet. It shouldn't just be one wallet. It shouldn't just be Garda or XDC pay or a Coinbase wallet. In theory, any of these wallets should be interoperable with these different technologies, and I think that's the biggest thing that's going to come, at least further down the line, whether it's XTC, whether it's EVM compatible, whether it's whatever network it may be - what's the best way to interact with these different technologies without you having to install a specific wallet to do so? Like I said, XDC pay's a really great wallet with XDC applications, but the biggest thing that's going to allow you to allow the average user, the average individual who may hold crypto or potentially may not hold Crypt, though, um, it would be some sort of tool to allow you to interact with this specific, this particular blockchain Network, um, regardless of the tool you use, whether it's this device, this, you know, svise y device, whether it's this tool, that tool, the biggest thing is how do you allow for these applications to be widely available to as many possible applications or as many possible users as possible? I think one thing that people don't tend to focus on is the users. How do you allow users to interact with the blockchain? How do you allow users to be able to interact with their favorite applications? I think we focus so much on investors, but we don't focus on users. Users, whether it's the next Facebook, the next Tik Tok, the next Instagram, the next Google, those who users of the application will bring on more people and more adoption to that specific Network than any particular amount of investor or amount of whatever, uh, hype would bring. And it's something that I like to focus on, like I said, I'm focusing on an SDK that allows for that, but it doesn't matter whether it's my SDK, your SDK, any of the people, any of the panelists' sdks, it doesn't matter. What allows the biggest thing that's going to allow for blockchain adoption is for the average user to be able to interact with any of these blockchain applications without having to go through a series of different hoops or series of different wallets or a series of different mechanisms to be able to interact with these things. Now, as of right now, for as you see, that is HAC pay, and one thing I am focusing on is symbols contract interface model language to allow for different devices and different interfaces to interact. But it doesn't matter whether it's SEC, Ethereum, Solana, Polygon, it doesn't matter. What matters is how do we allow users to interact with the blockchain in the simplest manner possible without them having to go through a series of hoops or without them having to focus on a specific wallet or how to or whatever it may be. That's my biggest thing, trying to be agnostic because I'm trying to focus on how do you allow these users to utilize the blockchain application? It's really about the usage of the applications. How do we allow people to utilize these applications, the full capacity of their ability to utilize them because there's a lot of so much in terms of the value that they can provide, whether that's them being able to provide some basic level of value for some simplistic need, whether it's them hosting the application decently and users able to interact with them globally. It doesn't matter what it is. How do we allow the average user to interact with this with the basic application in the simplest way? How do we do that? Like I said, FCC pay is the biggest one for ICC, um, and you may be able to utilize some aspects of Metamask if you have Metamask. It doesn't matter what it is. How do we allow for the average user to interact with the blockchain? That is the key. That is the golden question in terms of how do you get the next Facebook, the next Instagram, the next Tick Tock, the next Google, if the user can have a seamless experience with interaction with the blockchain. They may not even care or may not even notice of how they are able to do it. They may just simply interact with the application simply by going to a URL or simply by downloading an app just like every other app 209 that we interact with or every other website that's interact with. How do we focus on that? And like I said, SEC phase, the biggest one, that's the biggest one that we're focusing on. But that's really the real question. It's a serious bottleneck. How do you allow for the average user to interact with the blockchain totally simple means that they don't necessarily need to focus on all these other crazy elements of the blockchain to interact with an app that they may like?

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Well, it has to be like a Smart Patchwork of interoperability amongst different chains and then people's, you know, putting aside and just building. I mean, you see Community Builders all the time building within ecosystems, but it's like, how do we make something that is truly kind of able to be interoperated with where you know we don't get, I don't give a crap if I'm emailing somebody with a Yahoo account and I have a Gmail account or if I'm using a browser versus, you know, Yahoo.

XDC – Quincy – Foundation Developer
‍I love that you say that, exactly like email. It doesn't matter whether you have Google, Yahoo, uh, Outlook, or whatever email. We all email each other. How do we allow for that seamless element? Let's look like I said, you may have a Yahoo account, you may have an Outlook account, I might have a Gmail account, but how do we allow that simplistic need or that simplistic means of being able to communicate with each other without us focusing on, "oh yeah, I know I have Outlooks, therefore you need to set up an Outlook account, you need to buy"?

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍I think a lot of it and I wanna get through everybody here with closing thoughts, but I think a lot of it deals in. It all becomes about money at some point for most projects that launch with an ecosystem, so then when it becomes about money and trends, it doesn't become about connectivity and figuring out how to break down barriers between these ecosystems rather than just bolstering up, you know, internal aspects, which I think is, is, you know, ecosystems need to build out and they're going to interoperate with each other at a point in time where it makes sense, where there's a password, maybe password does something fantastic that only Casper can do, but maybe you layer on, you know, another Network and you layer on another Network and you start really figuring out what that looks like with mass adoption of the space, but you need to have connectivity from the user standpoint, and it's not gonna, I don't know, I don't know. We could go on with this forever. I did want to say, um, so thank you so much, Quincy, for joining a million percent. The one thing, uh, that when I interviewed, uh, when I interviewed Sunny Lou down at the hive Summit for VeChain he's had the same exact thing. He was like, 'It was literally just a short snippet of that interview, but it was like maybe 10 or 15 seconds.' He's like, 'If you want to build out sustainably and you want to build out for web 3 and build out for the users,' he's like, 'Just contact us. Like, we want to work with you. If the platform is built on Vechain, great. If it's not built on V chain, great, but we want to be a part of building out kind of the future aspects of web 3 and crypto and make it sustainable for the users.'So Jake, I will allow you to do closing thoughts as well, dude, and I know you've been here for over two hours. I'm gonna get some Mrinal in a second. It's late there. Any closing thoughts that you might have, Jake?

VeChain – Jake - Communications Lead and Community Manager
‍Yeah, I mean, obviously, to mirror what you've just quoted from Sunny, I mean, that's part of the ethos of Forge, and you know, even marketing it as Web3 as a Service, right? We don't want to create a silo of, 'Oh, it's a V chain product.' I mean, it will be based on V chain, but it can be interoperated across all EVMS, and you know, I think, like you guys are touching on, that's the ethos that's emerging now. We've got use cases, we're building stuff, but people elsewhere are doing things, you know? Casper, just to jump on the back of the stuff you were mentioning, you know, some real-world use cases, really cool stuff, and maybe one day we combine through some medium. So I think where we're at right now, I mean, I've personally been in the crypto space since 2017, I've ridden the tribal waves, and you know, you've seen this real kind of social media war zones almost, and now it's evolved to a space where now we're all set in a room talking about what's real and what's coming and what's tangible, and I think, yeah, it's a really interesting and exciting time to be actively playing a role in this space, especially as, you know, we're getting towards this kind of regulatory clarity, which I agree on the speakers from earlier, you know, it is essential, it is going to play a core part of adoption at large. So yeah, I mean, interoperability is key, coming together is key, you know, I open the door to anyone who wants to reach out on the back of tonight, and vice versa, you know, I've followed people that are up here tonight, love to start conversations with you all, and let's build the future. I think it's a really amazing time to be part of the space.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍I gotta give a gigantic shoutout real quick before we move to the next closing thought for all the Vechain community that hosts all the spaces that you guys do on a consistent basis. There's the V chain podcast that I see on a consistent basis. I saw Jordan Sour in here earlier. I got to interview that guy. V chain Vu who's been around God since I've been around in crypto. Brad with VeSea. I interviewed blackfee like everybody from the viching community that I have met. It's just amazing to talk to. We wanted to come down there and put work into the hive Summit, so we certainly did, and it was awesome to watch the beginning of a web 3 Summit not start with a meme video of italic Buterin. It started with a Nobel Prize Laureate literally going over the atom blocks of sustainability, building Adam by Adam, building up sustainable materials. And then the BCG aspects as well. It's been a pleasure to have you up here, Jake, and just thank you so much from Genfinity and for myself for you coming on and spending the time this evening. I'm gonna get, I'm gonna go over to Mrinal real quick as well, and Mrinal will ask for your closing thoughts, and then we'll go to Steve and Rico as well. So, Mrinal, anything that you kind of want to close with within Casper? And my sentiments are exactly the same for you guys. I had the opportunity to meet Cliff and yourself a couple of weeks ago, which was fantastic, and knowing how busy you guys are, what you guys are building, it's just a pleasure to have you guys here. So anything you want to close with, go ahead.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Yeah, first, first, I wanted to thank you and you know, thank the entire team and all the attendees and my fellow panelists. This has been great, so you know, thanks everyone for making this a great experience. I just want to close by saying I think the industry's at a much earlier stage than people think. Like people keep saying, "Hey, it's been out for a decade and therefore, you know, we're in Innings number three of a baseball game." I actually think we're still in Innings one. You know, the internet started in the '60s and '70s, that didn't really take off till the web browser came out. Netscape was one like '93 or '94, something like that, maybe '92. Anyway, TLDR, you know, the Internet only really took off once it became really, really seamless. And I think this is a point that's been made really well by other panelists as well. Technology really takes off when you actually don't even know it's there. You know, everyone uses AWS every day, like if you're watching a Netflix video, you're using AWS. But imagine how ridiculous it would be if in order to watch that Netflix video, you had to buy like an AWS token and then allow, you know, that's the only way you can access the AWS infrastructure. That's kind of where we are right now as an industry. All that stuff needs to become 99% Invisible and in the background. And, you know, I just want to thank the fellow panelists and others for, you know, building the tooling and stuff that hopefully gets us there. But I just want to, you know, I want to close by saying we're still at the really, really early stages of this industry. You know, like meaningful Enterprise usage of blockchain technology, there isn't that much. There's some. There's some cool things being built, but it's not like Cloud, which, you know, pretty much everyone uses now or the internet, which everyone uses. I do believe we'll get there, whether it takes half a decade or three decades. I don't know, but you know, we're headed in the right direction, so you know, just keep building and remember, still super early days, dude.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍That's one of the most insightful things that I've heard in quite some time, which is super grounding as well, and totally agree. Because we actually watch where we're at, it's like acid on to be like, there can't be, I mean, maybe there is 600 winning metaverses or 600 like, or whatever it is, but it just has to be seamless to the point that the users get to choose what they want to interact with, and good metaverse is good projects, good X, Y, and Z will do whatever they're gonna do, but there's not going to be a paywall behind a streaming service in the metaverse.

Casper Labs – Mrinal Manohar – Founder & CEO
‍Like it, that's it's, yeah, I agree with you. There's got to be multiple metaverses, right? Because look, basically going into a metaverse is basically abandoning reality, and you know, going to your call it heaven, what's happened to you and what's happened to me are probably very, very different, right? And so like this idea of like, there will be one metaverse, I'm like, yeah, that's kind of impossible because most people will hate it.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Massive adoption. Mass adoption with like Metaverse aspects, it can't be somebody that just spent a hundred grand buying NFTs for one metaverse to be like, hey, I'm sitting here waiting for other people to come in, like right? It's got to be interactive, it's got to be, it's just got to make sense. I mean, this space has got to make sense, and we're we go through these boom and bus cycles consistently, and you see real infrastructure providers and real builders talking sustainability, and from the vhan aspect of biospheres, and for from the Casper Labs aspect, ipe stuff, where it's not let's not just look at TBL, let's look at what is really there from the hedera aspect, everything that they've been, you know, that they've been doing as far as real world use cases. I mean, this is interesting, because if we can prove out to enterprises, then they're going to start wanting to integrate with community and start, you know, unfortunately at the point that it gets to them, marketing community. So shout out to you, um, uh, Mrinal for coming in as well, and same thing with Jake, and I know we've been here forever, so Steve and Rico, I'm going to give you guys the floor to close the South, uh, out with thoughts, and then I'll give maybe a minute, and then, uh, we'll be, we'll be done here. So thank you guys all, Steve, Enrico, the Foresters guys, foreign.

XMANNA – Steve Stein – Founder & CEO
‍So first of all, thank you again for, for having me here. I couldn't agree more with some of the things I've heard from the panelists, in regards to, you know, what the future looks like, um, in regards to enterprise and, government, and other opportunities. I would very much encourage you to reach out to us. I wish I could share my screen, but the technology is not as far out as, as you think, and more than that, I think that as well, you're 100 right. There's going to be many many metaverses, in fact, every company is going to take their website, convert it into a metaverse, right? It will be their version of their experiential, you know, metaverse, right? Their services, their products, and so on. The way companies are going to be able to interact with each other, and I think it's more about, you know, users don't have to understand that they're moving between these different environments if it feels more like a seamless environment. And the question is, how do you support that? The different technologies around it are really interesting. We are not the only ones building it. If you take a look, and I encourage you to sign up for our newsletter, because we'll be releasing some really cool information around some of the partnerships. So, again, we're not building all the tech. We think we might be, you know, part of the backbone of it, as in terms of the gamification and a variety of different ways that will move it. But yeah, it's definitely going to be an exciting future, and I think this year you'll see a lot of interesting companies coming out with a whole slew of products that they've been building quietly and on the sidelines that I think are going to overtake some of the top companies that are out there right now. So, I think it's going to be a very interesting time.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Awesome. Thank you so much, Steve. Rico, any closing thoughts?

Self Crypto IO – Rico Maverick – Founder & CEO
‍Ah, yes. I would like to be brief, you know, because it is too late here, and it's like 1 am here in Spain, so my wife is going to kill me. But I would like to say that there is still a long way to into to Akiva, uh, crypto being used by everywhere to hit mass adoption, but I truly think that the crypto is like in diapers, you know, regarding how early we are. I'm so proud to be an early adopter. I have been on crypto. I think I started to mine Bitcoin in back in the 2012, I think, like 10 years ago, something like that, 11 years ago, and this is still too early. I would love to be here to be developing. I love how the panel today, for example, like Beaching and Hedera and Casper, what they are developing. I feel like it is still too early for everything. I'm so proud to belong to this and to be also developing and constructing what is called what is still yet to come. So, I think, yeah, I'm so happy that the good times are yet to come, and I truly think that we are going to be if not the leaders, we're going to be the very important, the most, or really important people in the future, and the people will look at us or to early adopters like back in the 60s the people look at the people working at NASA, you know, something like that. At least, I dream with that. So, I'm so proud to be here. Thank you very much for inviting us to this space. Thank you Sadaf, thank you Solomon. Hope to see you again in another space.

Genfinity – King Solomon – Founder & CEO
‍Thank you guys so much. I wanted to give a shout out to Sadaf for bringing on the X-Manna team today and putting in the work to bring these guys on. Sada provided some valuable insights within that and also for co-hosting, as well as Sarah from host Coho, or hosting from Genfinity account tonight. Within all these spaces that we facilitate, we try to create as much synergy as we possibly can between multiple panelists across multiple ecosystems and multiple communities, and we plan to continue doing that. The next, you know, we're going to have two spaces similar to this in April, the 12th and the 26th. So, you know, pay attention to that stuff. I always recommend that you know the community and the panelists like give each other follows to pay attention to what's going on, because you know there are people trying to build this space out correctly and we plan to participate in that as well, as I think the panelists up here as well today. I'm gonna give a shout out to pre-ipo real quick. We're doing a pilot guide to Series 65 through Genfinity, as well as our Lighthouse report. We do crypto enclaves. When is crypto enclaves? We'll schedule it for April. We've got like Jeremy Hogan and, you know, crypto area who I see down there and Darren, and we really try to take an agnostic kind of macro view as a space and provide as much content as we can within that. Last week, we had an individual from hyperledger, as well as some other people within that space which did, you know, very well. Huge shout out to Swirls and Hedera for helping us with facilitating these types of content aspects. Huge shout out to Serenity Shield who we work with to get them into these spaces and about digital sovereignty and everything else, and to all the panelists that came up here today. So, Quincy from XTC, Jake from V chain, obviously the head of comms and Community Management, Steve and Rico, and we had Self ID up here as well and Renault from Casper, Christian from Hedera. I mean, what an amazing space. I hope you guys learned something. I learned a lot today, and Sadaf and Sarah, thank you guys so much again. Stay tuned for next month and we will keep doing this. So, no, well, they don't call you King for no reason. You covered everything, but I think what I wanted to say was just make sure everybody's following each other. There's a lot of synergy here, and I think you can all take advantage of that. In these spaces, I mean, you probably wouldn't find yourself on those spaces with some of these panelists If you were conducting kind of your own network of spaces, so this is really designed to make sure that you are in a setting where people that you wouldn't traditionally kind of get on a spaces with are on there, and you can tap into each other's audiences and see if there is synergy to collaborate. Yeah, that's it. That's all from me. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you guys. Yeah, we look forward to hosting you guys again. Yep, see you guys. Thanks Quincy. Thanks, guys. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Take care.